Episode 29 | Brad and Christina’s 6 Presentation Tips for Advanced Speakers June 26, 2022

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GUEST: Christina Mozaffari, Partner, Throughline Group

For more than a year, you’ve heard a lone voice at the helm of The Speak Good Podcast, host and Chief Executive Throughliner Brad Phillips. Today, you meet Throughline Group’s other half. Listen in as partner Christina Mozaffari joins Brad to reveal six advanced public speaking tips – from how to present more effective slides to how to improve your look during a virtual presentation. Far from a silent partner, Christina is an experienced trainer, a talented communications coach, and a self-proclaimed recovering (and Emmy award-winning) journalist who uses the best of what she learned on network news – as well as years of public speaking and media training – to help Throughline’s clients become better communicators. After more than 10 years of working together, they still love what they do and the opportunity to find the right set of skills, techniques, and strategies for each client to excel.

BIO:

Christina Mozaffari is a partner in Throughline Group, a media and presentation training firm based in New York City and Washington, D.C. She has prepared some of the nation’s most-visible government agencies to excel during high-pressured crisis responses, worked with hundreds of top corporate executives and developed a particular talent for training mission-driven nonprofits. She previously worked at NBC News, where she produced stories for NBC Nightly News, The Today Show, and Hardball with Chris Matthews. As a journalist, she covered everything from the 2008 presidential campaign and Hurricane Katrina to the election of Pope Benedict in Rome and the war in Iraq. She was awarded an Emmy as part of NBC’s team coverage of 2008’s presidential election night.

BRAD PHILLIPS, HOST, THE SPEAK GOOD PODCAST:

Hi Christina.

CHRISTINA MOZAFFARI:

Hi Brad.

PHILLIPS:

So, this episode of the podcast is a little bit different from the ones we’ve done in the past. It’s the final episode before we go off on our summer hiatus and I’ve invited my partner in Throughline Group, Christina Mozzafari, who I’ve worked with for over a decade at this point, to join me on the podcast, to talk about what our bread and butter is. To talk about what we actually do in our day jobs, which is teach people how to be more effective communicators in public speaking and media interview contexts. We thought for this episode, we would focus on six advanced public speaking tips. I’ll offer five. And at the end, I’m going to ask Christina to give me one of hers. And I should mention that this has not been planned. Christina does not know what I’m going to say. I don’t know what she’s going to say. We wanted it to sound like it does when the two of us are just kind of at dinner together or at a gig together. How we naturally talk to each other. So that’s the game plan. How are you feeling about this, Christina?

MOZAFFARI:

I mean, I love, I’m really excited to see what or to hear what your tips are. Because like you said, I have no idea what you’re going to say. So, I think it sounds like fun.  (LAUGHS)

PHILLIPS:

Yeah. I’m excited to hear what I’m going to say too. The truth is I had a kind of file of ideas of what my top five might be, and I’ve been mulling which of the five to keep and which ones to cut. And I just literally minutes before we hit the record button, decided on what the final five would be. So, this is about as spontaneous as any episode we ever do will be.

MOZAFFARI:

See, those are the traits of a real former news producer. Right up to the last second, you make the last decision. Boom, you’re ready to go.

PHILLIPS:

You know, you actually bring up a good point, which is people don’t know who you are and what your background is. Maybe it’s worth spending 20 seconds just kind of telling people where you come from.

MOZAFFARI:

Oh, sure. So I am a recovering reporter. I was a TV news producer for NBC, so I did everything from Hardball with Chris Matthews to The Today show and The NBC Nightly News. And I covered presidential campaigns and wars. And, yeah, I mean, I, some days I feel like I’ve forgotten more than I remember that I did. But that is my background. And as you mentioned, we’ve been doing this together for a little more than 10 years now, and it feels like 10 minutes. But I always say this is the best recovering reporter job ever, because in our day-to-day work, we still get to ask people questions and, you know, teach people how to interact with the media. So, those instincts are still there, but in a productive way that helps people.

PHILLIPS:

And you have this, as I’ve complimented you before, this incredible ability to give clients very direct feedback in a way that makes clear to them that you’re very much on their side, that leads to results, and most importantly leads them to ask for more, to have you back over and over again. So, you always have this very nice tone in the way that you, I actually am envious of. Sometimes I’m a little bit more circuitous in the way I deliver feedback because I don’t want to hurt people’s feelings. So ultimately I do, it’s my job to deliver the feedback that they need to hear in order to improve. But I could be pretty diplomatic and it’s not to say you’re not diplomatic, but you are, you are diplomatic and direct in different proportions.

MOZAFFARI:

(LAUGHS)

PHILLIPS:

So why don’t we jump into it? The podcast is six advanced public speaking tips. In our day jobs, we give people the most foundational public speaking tips. And, because it’s our day job, and I don’t want to cut into that, and, also, because frankly we do it so often, it’s not quite as exciting for us, I wanted to focus this on things that are a little bit new or different or advanced. So that it is fresh for us too. So why don’t we get into it?

MOZAFFARI:

Let’s get into it, Brad. I’m dying to know what’s your first one.

PHILLIPS:

(LAUGHS).

MOZAFFARI:

I don’t know what else to ask Just go. (LAUGHS)

PHILLIPS:

Okay. Number one, here we go. Avoid the slide two problem. So if you think about a deck  and this idea comes out of a pitch deck kind of scenario where maybe a firm is going into pitch business for an investor or a client pitch, typically what I see,  and this is overwhelmingly the case, is the first slide is just the title slide, the name of the speakers, the name of the company, maybe a logo and slide two is the about us slide. Maybe it’s a map of the locations. I hear you gasping because you probably recognize that.

MOZAFFARI:

Yeah.

PHILLIPS:

But it’s all about them, where we work, maybe our mission statement. And I like to imagine myself in the eyes of the client, sitting there immediately thinking, wow, this person’s talking all about them. How does the fact that you have an office in Chicago and Buenos Aires and three other places help me? Why does your mission statement help me? And so, I think it’s putting the focus in the wrong place. It’s “Hi, everybody, let me tell you all about us. And of course, if you’re doing a pitch, it’s really all about them. And so, there are these very easy modifications that people can make. One of my favorites (is) go to the company website that you’re pitching, look at what they say in their mission statement and vision statement. Look at some recent media clips of theirs. What are they talking about? Maybe the company’s founder has been on a podcast or done media interviews where he or she has said something that you can build your opening around. So, as an example of this, rather than saying, “Hi everybody, my name is Brad Phillips with Throughline Group. We have offices in New York City and in Washington, D.C.,” you might start by saying, “Good morning, everybody. I was recently listening to your company president on a podcast where he said that where you work really doesn’t matter anymore. We agree with that. Although we have offices in New York and Washington, the truth is we are able to help clients with our network of people all around the world, which allows us to hire people who are true specialists, regardless of geography. And with that as our structure, we are going to be able to help you accomplish the three goals that you articulated in your statement of work.” So even a minor tweak like that at least puts the opening into their universe rather than it being, “Hello, everyone. I want to tell you all about us.” And one last thing I’ll just say about this Christina is let’s be honest, I think everybody that’s been pitched is familiar with everybody who comes in and talks to them giving that slide, too. So, the company that comes in and has made some effort to do it differently, and to really put the focus on the client instead of themselves will also stand apart from the competition.

MOZAFFARI:

Yeah, no, I love that. And I think even beyond pitches, I think about conferences and, you know, people introduce others at conferences or they, you know, they’re oftentimes very niche and so they’ll know the organization that’s presenting anyway, and you still get that, you know, slide two two-minute. Let me tell you about us. We have all these offices. We have 2,000 people. And, even making that tweak to, you know, our 2,000 people have done this in the last year to advance the cause and let’s get into the problem we’re solving, I think that’s fantastic, even just beyond pitching

PHILLIPS:

Very good point. Yes. It’s, it’s almost reflexive. This is the way we’ve always done it. This is the way other people do it. I will just go into that familiar template. And yet when you see people practicing this new version that we’re recommending, the difference is immediate. It’s easy to implement. And, it’s high impact.

MOZAFFARI:

Yeah. And I also think it’s, it’s so funny because when we advocate for practicing that way too, it tends to be a little uncomfortable for the speaker. But, it’s really nice when their colleagues are in the room as well and go, “Nope, that actually worked. That was really great.” So, I think having that moment, too, of just that reassurance is also really nice.

PHILLIPS:

Yeah.

MOZAFFARI:

That’s a good start, Brad. I like, I like kicking off with slide two. What, what else do you have for me?

PHILLIPS:

Yeah, let’s try to keep the momentum up. Okay. My, my second idea, and this is one that’s familiar to the two of us. We talk about it a lot is the importance of avoiding the “eye-ear” conflict. The idea that if you’re showing a slide, if you click to a new slide and you start talking immediately after you put up the slide, people are going to try to process that visual information, which doesn’t mean that they can’t hear the speaker who’s talking, but it means that they hear them less efficiently and they are missing context. One of my favorite studies around this, and a lot of people don’t know this, that when you think about the cable news crawl, the crawl at the bottom of the screen in the United States, the first time that that appeared on the cable networks was on 9/11. It was the first time that there was just such a flood of information coming in so quickly that the news networks needed the crawl in order to be able to share the information that they were receiving. And so several years later, a researcher looked at well, what happens when that is on the screen? And the researcher showed an extended clip to a group of people and then did a test. How much do you accurately recall from what you had just seen?  He asked 10 questions and the results are dismaying for several reasons you’ll hear it a second. But the version that he showed without the crawl respondents got 4.3 of 10 questions correct. The ones that had the crawl, they only got 3.2 out of 10 correct. So, you could say a couple of things. One is, wow, those are dismal results, regardless of the crawl , which is either a testament to the way cable news is telling stories, or just the way the human brain works. But the second takeaway from it is there is a real meaningful difference between when the crawl is there and when it’s not. And so that’s what I mean by the”eye-ear” conflict. There’s a couple of ways to reduce that. Obviously, you can pause when a new slide comes up. You could set it up before you show it, so people have some context for what they’re about to see. But when the slide is already on the screen, I think the two things that are really important to do is, one, make sure that it’s designed well, meaning that the design itself guides the eye to the most important point. And certainly, if it’s a words and bullet slide, that’s highly unlikely to happen.

MOZAFFARI:

Right.

PHILLIPS:

And you could do that through fonts and color and size. You could do it on placement of the slide so if there’s a few bullets on the left and the right is a pretty open map or graphic, your eye is naturally going to go there. You can also do it through your narrative. So, when the slide comes up, you might say, so take a look at the upper left. And in that way, you’re almost, I think, much like a meteorologist or a sportscaster guiding the eye much like a meteorologist would say, so we have this low front moving in over the Northeast, and using their hands to kind of indicate where on the map that that action has taken place. The same thing should occur when the presenter is delivering that content.

MOZAFFARI:

Yeah, no, I agree. I mean we, you know, run into this challenge all the time. And the other thing I would add to that, though, especially when you’re presenting data on a slide, so you say, you know, take a look at the number here in the top left. I also always remind people to give that slide a meaningful title. So, if your audience can’t quite make out the number or read the graph, as well as they should be able to that title says, you know, our profits have gone up 25 percent over the last year, so they don’t have to translate the data point, the visual data point.

PHILLIPS:

And what you just did there, Christina, is you gave the takeaway point in the headline. And I think a lot of companies, or people putting slide togethers tend to put the topic of the slide instead. It’ll just say 2022 profits. But what you just did was tell people what the takeaway point is. And that’s also, if you talk about the “eye-ear” conflict, it reduces it because they immediately know what that is. There’s a great graphic designer, she is actually a competitor of ours, but she’s so good at what she does I see her more as a peer in the field that I really admire. Her name is Nancy Duarte. She’s written some exceptional books, one of which is called Slideology.

MOZAFFARI:

Yes.

PHILLIPS:

She came up with this idea that she calls the billboard test. Imagine you’re driving down a highway at, I forget how many miles per hour she says, let’s say that she’s following the law, 55 or 60. Yeah, we probably shouldn’t say they’re, you know …

MOZAFFARI:

Doing eighty.

PHILLIPS:

She says, you know, obviously if you’re designing a billboard for the highway and people are flying by it, at that speed, you need to make it something they can take it very quickly. And I think analogizing that to slide design, which is what she advocates is quite smart.

MOZAFFARI:

You know, the one other thing I’ll add to that, because I’ve seen some, you know, we talk about setting up the slide and showing it and giving your audience a moment to take it in and, you know, so that we’re helping to avoid that “eye-ear” conflict before we start talking about it. I think some people get a little confused by how much time. Are you supposed to do this at every slide? And I would say, think about the type of slide you’re showing. So, for example, sometimes in our presentations, we have a quote we want people to read. So, in that case, we’ll, you know, say who it’s by, we’ll show it. And then, you and I we’ll read it silently to ourselves and kind of give an extra beat for the audience to take it in. But if you have like a visually designed slide, a picture, you’re not going to do that. So also thinking about the type of slide and how much time your audience needs to take it in and understand it, I think is really helpful. And sometimes can clarify that rhythm for you as well.

PHILLIPS:

Absolutely. Great point.

MOZAFFARI:

Okay. Well, let’s, I mean, let’s keep things moving. Yeah. What’s our third advanced takeaway.

PHILLIPS:

Well, it’s number three. So, I had to play on the number three. So number three is use the holy trinity. And what I mean by that is in a secular sense of the holy trinity, which is you are maybe giving a presentation where you’re sharing half an hour of material. How do you make sure that the audience focuses on the parts of that that are truly the most important? And so, the three things, the three points that I like to make to our clients are, first of all, the first step is identify what in your presentation truly are the most important things that you want to pop more than anything else. So obviously you just have to identify for yourself what that is. If everything is being presented as if it’s equal, then nothing will stand apart. So number one is identify the information. Part two of the holy trinity then is right before you say it use a flagging phrase, something that is likely to get their attention if they’ve been drifting. Something like, “But you know, the biggest thing that surprised us,” or “the unexpected thing we learned,” or “the most important thing,” these are phrases that inevitably build anticipation, make people lean in and want to hear what the response is. So that’s number two, use a flagging phrase. And then, number three is when you deliver it, maybe change your inflection.

MOZAFFARI:

Yes.

PHILLIPS:

If you’ve been speaking quickly, slow it down. If you’ve been speaking loud, get a little bit quieter. If you’re generally a more quiet speaker, maybe do the opposite, get a little more excited. So, identify the information, use a flagging phrase, change inflection. What that essentially does is put a spotlight on the information you’re about to share, just to ensure the audience doesn’t miss what truly are the key points.

MOZAFFARI:

Yeah. And I think the majority of people that I work with need to take that pause, you know. They are so focused on getting their energy up and that’s a great thing. You want people to be really energetic, but the pause is I think really, really powerful. And when you take a moment and take that pause, it’ll feel like 10 years up on the stage, but it’s a fleeting moment for your audience. And it really does help them to focus in on what you’re going to say. And I think it also, by the way, looks supremely confident.

PHILLIPS:

Absolutely. Christina, I’m going to ask you to stretch for a moment. I have something on my printer that I want to use for point number four, which I forgot to get off my printer right before we began.

MOZAFFARI:

(LAUGHS)

PHILLIPS:

So, stretch for just a moment, if you would.

MOZAFFARI:

You’re going to take the powerful pause here. Um, yeah. Okay. Well, so other ways to kind of shine that light on your next point as the pause is great. Maybe a physical movement on the stage as well. So, you can say, you know, all right, so now that we’ve talked about this first idea, let’s move on to the second surprising idea and you can move on the stage as well. I am done stretching. Did you get … that was a quick run to your printer.

PHILLIPS:

Thank you. Yeah, my printer’s not far away, but it was just going to take me away from my microphone. So, I don’t know what you said there. Hopefully, it was complimentary. You know, we have like this ..

MOZAFFARI:

Of course ..

PHILLIPS:

Big brother, big sister relationship.

MOZAFFARI:

I’m not going to pull your pig tails today. (LAUGHS)

PHILLIPS:

Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. All right. I’m ready.

MOZAFFARI:

Number four.

PHILLIPS:

Number four, let’s do it. And actually that too, this was not intentional, I really did have something on my printer, but number four is stretch and shrink your stories. And what I mean by that there are all different formats in which a presenter will speak. There’s let’s say panel presentations, where if you’re a panelist, it might be inappropriate to give an answer that goes much longer than say 90 seconds. So, if you’re going to share an example, it has to be crisp. And then there’s other formats. Or, you’re giving a keynote or conference talk where perhaps flushing out a case study or a story for five minutes is not only appropriate, but really compelling and really effective at driving home a message. So, one of the things that I think is really useful for anybody who speaks with some regularity is to learn how to tell a story in kind of a short-, medium-, and long-format. Short might be a few seconds. Medium might be 30 second. Long might be a couple of minutes. And to just get comfortable, you’ll be able to use that for media as well, depending on the media format. If you’re doing a podcast, you may have more time. If you’re doing something that’s going to be excerpted as a soundbite, you have to be short. And I want to share with you a quote I came across that I think does a brilliant job of telling a story really quickly. This quote … I think does a brilliant job of telling a story really quickly. This quote came from the Associated Press in March of 2021. It has to do with starvation and what the person was quoted in the Associated Press – this is a person with a humanitarian relief organization –  said is this quote, “People are starving. There is a severe issue of access to food. One interviewee told me she survived on just leaves while she hid in the forest.” That’s a story. That’s concrete. And just in that sentence, she survived on just leaves while she hid a forest, you have pretty much every element of storytelling that you need. You have the character. You have the action. And so that’s a great example, kind of an extreme example, because it’s so short.

MOZAFFARI:

Right.

PHILLIPS:

But it just shows you that you are able to shrink the word count in time of delivery and still have impact.

MOZAFFARI:

I remember working at NBC. You’d have your assignment that morning at 9:30, right? And you’d have two minutes to tell your story. And around five o’clock, 5:30, when the deadline was 6:30, they’d knock on your door and say, you have to shave 30 seconds off of this piece tonight. And so, you’re going through the script and taking out every extra word or phrase that is not critical to still understanding the story. I mean, you can cut out a lot of and’s and the’s, right? And some little extra tidbits when you are that tough of an editor on yourself, you can tell a really crisp, quotable, nice, short story that gets the point across.

PHILLIPS:

Exactly. And I think it’s having that arsenal. Because, on the other hand, there are times when that three-minute story is really great and really effective. So, I hope people don’t walk away from this saying that we want them to tell one-sentence stories. But, rather, that they should know how to do that for those moments when it makes sense to do so.

MOZAFFARI:

Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, absolutely. Well, what about our fifth tip Brad?

PHILLIPS:

Uh, all right. My final one comes, I’ve just been, recently, this is why it’s top of mind for me, I’ve been working with a public company recently preparing for an investor day where they are talking about their technologies and their innovations. And, one of the things we talked about with that company a lot is when they were giving examples that they were, like so many, focused on the features and what the products and innovations and technologies do, but it wasn’t really fleshed out as a fully told story. And so, I gave them a framework to work with, which was when talking about a new technology or something that’s coming up, talk about it in either a problem-solution-result format, or another way of thinking about that might be what was the past state, what’s the present state,and what will be the future state. And so I’ll give you an example. Saying something like the current battery life lifespan for this type of product is only eight hours, and for a lot of people who are traveling or unable to find a charging station, that leaves them with a device that doesn’t work when they need it most at the end of the day. What we did was design a new technology that doubled the battery life that will make sure that that battery is available for you until you’re able to find a charging station. And as we look to the future, what we see us being able to … and then you fill in the blank. So that’s just an example of what a past-state, present-state, future-state looks like. I see this with clients all the time, where sometimes simply by seeding them with the question of, so wait a minute, what’s the problem you were trying to solve? What was the gap in the marketplace before you developed this thing? What did life look like back then? By getting them to add that piece to it, suddenly you have much more of a compelling narrative because you framed the story. You framed it with what was, and why that was problematic, how you went about solving the problem, and, in terms of the real-life impact, how the future will look different as a result of those efforts.

MOZAFFARI:

I love that framework. I often tell people to fill in the blank, you know, when you use this product you will experience, or you will feel and. you know, that’s kind of your future state, right? But I love adding on the past state and the present to give that extra context. And I mean, also it really positions your speakers as problem-solvers, innovators. You know, it gives a little insight into the thought process and all of that context can really make a difference, especially in a really competitive marketplace. So, I think that’s wonderful.

PHILLIPS:

Absolutely. And you know, sometimes there are, when you talk to people behind the scenes, they have all of these really wonderful stories that they didn’t think to share publicly. So, for example, there was a gap in the marketplace. They identified there was something that was a problem and they wanted to solve that problem. And maybe they didn’t know how to go about trying to solve it. And maybe they hit their head against the wall. Maybe they tried something 10 times. It didn’t work. The old story about Thomas Edison. I think it was Edison, who basically made the point that he didn’t see the hundred thousand failures on the way to finding one that finally worked as failures. He saw those a hundred thousand attempts as getting closer to the solution. So, what was that? When were you beating your head against the wall because what you were trying didn’t exist? You were starting from scratch. You didn’t have the staff you needed, or the technology wasn’t available. And then you had to go out and find the right people and find the right technologies and create new materials that had never been put together in that way before. Share that. That’s all part of the story, that’s really compelling. And to your point, Christina, it’s also part of, I think, what positions them as innovators and leaders and people who are able to get past problems rather than just using them as reasons why they weren’t able to accomplish something.

MOZAFFARI:

And in longer presentations, you know, not just investor days, but in longer presentations that also helps bring really technical presentations to life. You know, when people say, oh, well, I don’t know what the story is, I’m like, well, you know, talk about a thought process or talk about questions you asked yourself. Or, you know, it just helps what is typically a dry, boring, sometimes, presentation to life. I think that’s really important.

PHILLIPS:

Yeah. And to your point, you know, we often work with CFOs, chief financial officers, or others who have similar roles and the quip, they almost always make – you can almost, if you were a gambling person, you could almost say, they’re going to make this quip – is usually, I’m just the numbers guy. I’m just the numbers person. This is boring. And I always say no, behind every number is a story. Behind every number is a disappointment or a success, is a deliberate decision that allowed that number to happen, or that prevented that number from happening. So, let’s get behind the number. That’s where the story usually lives. And let’s not just hide and try to inoculate yourselves from what will inevitably be a dull presentation by just using the excuse of “I’m a numbers person.” That’s lazy. Let’s find the stuff behind the numbers that make it interesting.

So, Christina, we are now ready for your point. I have no idea what you’re about to say, but I’m excited. What is the advanced public speaking tip that you would like to offer?

MOZAFFARI:

So mine is … mine’s a little more of a virtual presentation.

PHILLIPS:

Ohh. I like it.

MOZAFFARI:

Help to folks like me who now have to wear glasses. We tend to have to fight the glare, so I have a ring light behind my computer that you can now see in my glasses, or you can see the glare on my screen. It can be really frustrating. And especially if people are using notes, it’s tough to beat. Right? But, years ago, an old cameraman taught me a wonderful trick and I love it. So, you’re gonna push the side, the earpiece of your glasses up and angle your lens down. So now you still have the advantage of being able to wear your glasses in virtual presentations without the glare. And, of course, you have to kind of keep your head straight as well. If I put my head up, you’ll get that glare again, but I can now see clearly and the glare in my glasses is not distracting my audience.

PHILLIPS:

You taught me that trick and it works exactly as you’ve described. The parts of the glasses that are on your ear go up, your nose stays where it usually does. And I find that that works really well for people with long hair who can cover the fact that their glasses on their ears are up a little bit. So that’s a great, a great little tip. So, to you, and to your cameraman who taught me that one, thank you. You know anti-glare glasses help, but only to a degree. I find that it doesn’t help much in the virtual world. And the other thing that can help with that I’ve found is reduce the brightness on your screen. The combination of all of those things will eliminate the glare, but, you know, they’re all little things that can help. And the thing about all of this is here I’m talking about what’s the problem you want to solve? What’s the solution? How does it result in real-world change? But if people are distracted, because what they’re thinking about is, oh, I see the full screen in Christina’s eyeglasses, it makes it harder for them to take that point. And so, you know, these points that deal with the visual are important, if, for no other reason that they allow people to focus on the content that you really wanted them to walk away with.

MOZAFFARI:

Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. And, people with glasses are always thrilled. It’s almost like a cocktail party trick you can talk about, you know? It’s so simple and it’s just, it’s easy and immediate.

PHILLIPS:

So how was this for you? How did you like doing the first episode of The Speak Good Podcast?

MOZAFFARI:

It was not as terrifying as I thought it would be. I did not sleep well last night because I was nervous. But, you know, I should have known better. I mean, you know, we’ve worked together for more than a decade, but it was fun. I had a good time.

PHILLIPS:

Can I ask you because I mean, obviously you’re an experienced presenter. You present all the time, you know I am your colleague and this is a podcast that we’re putting out into the world. So you’re not going to get ambushed with a gotcha question. Only because so many of our clients have the same type of speaking anxiety and lose sleep. What do you think was the impetus for that anxiety and what is the best technique you’ve been able to come up with to help you, if not eliminate the anxiety, at least manage it more effectively

MOZAFFARI:

The day that I’m not nervous about doing these things is the day that I get a little worried. I mean I care about the impact. I care about people listening to this and I care about how our company looks. So that’s definitely why I was nervous and why I didn’t sleep well. And I’m okay with that. I’ve done this long enough to your point that if there’s a day when I kind of just stumble in and say, all right, I’m going to sit down and do this and then go about my day, that’s actually when I’m concerned. So, I’ve learned to take those nerves and say, all right, so we’re not going to have the best night of sleep and that’s going to not be terribly fun. But it just shows that I care. It gets my adrenaline still going, you know, maybe a little extra caffeine after we get off of the podcast today. But I’ve learned to kind of embrace that as saying, this means I still care. And I take it seriously. So, I’ve rewritten that into a positive for me.

PHILLIPS:

I’m glad I asked you that question. That was not the answer I thought you were going to give and it is a great answer. And you’re totally right that I find the same thing. When I walk in and even sometimes think, wow, that’s interesting. I don’t feel nervous, I’m almost always flatter. And those times when my heart is beating a little fast, it almost sharpens you. There’s a point at which that becomes destructive instead of constructive.

MOZAFFARI:

Yes.

PHILLIPS:

But as long as you’re in that sweet spot in the middle, I agree with you it’s something that can be a useful ally and not something to dread.

MOZAFFARI:

Yes. And, to your point, I mean, years of experience with this, when you and I first started, remember I would text you in the morning and say, I slept like two hours last night. I was so nervous. Now, it’s not two hours. It like, you know, I could sleep a little bit longer, you know, again, I’ve just, I’ve gotten used to that physical reaction. But, you’re right. It can be detrimental, if it goes too far. Usually I find that it just means I prepare a little more, you know, I’m focused a little more and I like that.

PHILLIPS:

So Christina, it has been so great to have you on the podcast. Thank you for doing this. This was fun.

MOZAFFARI:

Thank you for having me. I enjoyed it. We need to do this again.

PHILLILPS:

Let’s make it a date. Thank you.

MOZAFFARI:

All right. Have a great summer.

PHILLIPS:

Thanks everyone for listening. This is the summer hiatus. I hope this ties you over until we’re back. In the meantime, thanks for listening. Speak good and listen well, too.

• advanced presentation skills
• Christina Mozaffari
• public speaking skills